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 Percee
P
Interview
interview 0207 added
17.06.04 words: Nikesh & 563 technical:
QED
The Perseverance of Percee P
At Dedbeat 2004, I was extremely surprised and humbled to walk into the
rhyme inspector Percee P, the legendary old skool hero, selling
CDs of his work outside one of the live rooms. It was strange moment, watching
such a pioneer acting as his own street team. Humbled, 563 and I dragged him
away from the hard sell to chat about his new album, out soon on Stones Throw
and about self-belief, about record sales and about perserverance…
NS: Percee, how are you?
PP: I’m good, proud to be out here in the UK. Dedbeat number 4, proud to be part
of that history.
NS: Is this your first time in the UK?
PP: Yes, it is. I should have been out here a long time ago. But anytime is
better than never.
NS: Tell us about the new album you have coming out with Stones Throw.
 PP: All the tracks were produced by Madlib. I’m doing all the Mcing. Diamond D
is on it, Cut Chemist is remixing a song. Jurassic 5 want to collaborate. I did
a song with Medaphoar and Wildchild, and also talked to Prince Poetry about
doing something. Probably Quasimoto…
NS: How near is it to being finished?
PP: Well, I did a lot of vocals already. They’re just adding the final touches,
mixdowns, scratches… anything else I do, they’ll wanna do it. If I came to them
with another new song, they’d probably want to throw that on too.
NS: How does the music-making work? Does Madlib send the tracks to you and
then you send vocals back?
PP: I write, and I listen to the tracks that I like. And I just kick rhymes to
that track and then go down to the studio and record it.
563: I hear Madlib has beats for days. He makes beat tapes every week. Did he
hit you up with loads of beats?
PP: Yeah. One CD he sent me had like 50 beats on it. I’ve received four hundred
beats from him. He’s always analysing, getting ideas. If he was sat here, he’d
probably have an idea right now. He’d hear something drop on the floor and think
"I can make something of that." So, he records everything. He makes beats while
watching movies.
NS: Who brought you two together?
PP: I met all these artists through selling my CD… Selling CDs, that’s how I
made my name. I’d be in New York at a show, because I’m a fan too, and I’d pop
up, sell the music and I’d talk to them and they’d be like, "Shit, you Percee
P?" and I’d be like, "Yeah"… that’s how I met Wildchild. Selling tapes, selling
old skool tapes to people. A lot of people had heard of me but didn’t know me if
they saw me, so I’d go and just talk to people and introduce myself. One time, I
was talking to these people and they said they were from Lootpack, and I said,
“Word, I’m an artist too. I’m Percee P.” And they stopped, they almost fell
over, “Whoa, you Percee P? Come outside and let’s get some footage.”
"...And
I need to make money too. I didn’t want to have a record out and just be
struggling. I’ve seen that with so many artists, having good records out but
still struggling..."
So some
footage ended up on a Packumentary video, that was the first time they met me. I
went outside and kicked some rhymes with them. They asked what I was up to those
days and I said I was still writing and recording. They said they wanted to do
something with me so we stayed in contact. So, we did it. But, they always
stayed in contact and said if I wanted to put out some music, they’d love to put
it out. I sat for a while, analysing, seeing how they do their business. People
in New York was real excited. I was learning more about them. People were saying
that Stones Throw was a good label. I was watching what they were doing, and
they were putting out good music, not following trends, so I decided this was
the type of label I could put music out with. They seemed to appreciate me cos
they were fans of my music too, so they let me do what I do.
563: You obviously have the tracks with Lord Finesse, you were down with the
D.I.T.C. back in the day, you still see those guys around?
 PP: Yeah, I still see those guys around. Actually, me and Lord Finesse, we did a
movie. Him, AG, Showbiz, Edan, Dee-Flow… you heard of Edan’s Fast Rap? At the
end, where me and Lord Finesse have that battle and he played it? That battle
was from 1989, it was videotaped. I met this Japanese guy called June Oki. I
told him about the history of the Bronx and he wanted to get that early-90s feel
on tape. He knew AG, who was from the same project as me, and so he got in
contact with me. He said that he knew about that battle with Lord Finesse and he
wanted to find that videotape. We didn’t know who had the tape. Four months
after that, he made his first single. We didn’t know we were gonna be where we
at now so neither of us made a copy of that battle. Then, we couldn’t find a
copy of that battle. Years went by, like fifteen years… and this guy comes to me
about the movie and said he wanna to hear that battle. I gave him names of
people who might have it. I guess money talked, because it surfaced. The battle
uncut. It was put in this movie called SBX. I hooked up Edan and got him in the
movie because he exposed a lot of the younger generation to it on Fast Rap. A
lot of the younger people know about that battle through him.
NS: Going back to Stones Throw, were there a lot of offers from different
labels over the years?
PP: For years, I’ve been offered independent records. But I’ve been working on
stuff anyway. And I need to make money too. I didn’t want to have a record out
and just be struggling. I’ve seen that with so many artists, having good records
out but still struggling. It’s all good having your record out but you’re a
professional. I love the music but I do want to make some money off it. This is
a job. Record labels are getting paid good so I figure artists should too. So I
figured I should stop trying to make music to give to somebody to make money off
me. Obviously a record label is a boss and you’ll never make more than your own
boss. So what I did, to make sure I was never forgotten… I’d go on the streets
selling CDs myself, to expose myself to the new generation. A lot of artists
think they’re too big to do that. I’m not too big to do that. I don’t worry
about what people think. I go on the streets, go to shows, meet bigger artists
like Jurassic 5. When I met them, they didn’t know I still did it. So we did
something together. If I didn’t go out and sell these CDs, I would never have
met any of these people. I’m never gonna get so comfortable that I stop doing
that. I take them everywhere with me. I go to shows, I don’t stay backstage, I
wanna be with the people. I wanna meet you, get a connection from you. That’s
why I’m here now. If that’s the way it was intended for me… god blessed me that
way. Whatever got me where I’m going, I’m gonna keep going because it hasn’t
failed me yet.
563: your reputation… we know you stand outside Fat Beats, selling your CD.
We’ve seen you around Dedbeat, selling your CD. You haven’t got a big ego like
some artists who come over here…
PP: Nobody should be able your product more than you. Labels will push it but
it’s your album too. You’re pushing yourself. People need to know who you are. A
lot of the time, I’m a name without a face to a lot of people, until I started
selling music myself. Then I realised that I was actually known. I was making
records and I had an idea the label was probably putting it out overseas but I
didn’t know from people till I started coming out to meet people. I went to Fat
Beats because it’s an internationally known spot. People come there from all
over the world and that’s how my CD got all over the world. If I had just stayed
in the Bronx, it wouldn’t have happened as they’re more caught up in mainstream
hiphop like 50 Cent and Jay-Z and not the old skool pioneers. Places like Fat
Beats are where people know their history. So a DJ who goes there to buy records
is probably more likely to know who I am than if I stood outside Tower or
Virgin. I don’t think I’m better than nobody. You don’t need no record label to
validate you. It’s up to you. If you believe you’re somebody, you should never
wait for somebody to give you a deal. I always tell people, if you can’t get a
deal, don’t stand around waiting, sending demo tapes, for five years, that’s
five years you could have been selling your CD and this is how many people would
know you. So don’t waste no time… cos the same product that a record label turns
down could probably be some classics if you had just sold it yourself.
"...People
like Bambataa exposed us to other cultures, other
countries. To them hip-hop was universal..."
If Wu
Tang hadn’t have ever put out their own records, they probably wouldn’t be
signed now. When you put out your own stuff, you’re saying to a record company,
you didn’t want to sign this and it’s a hit record. I gave it to you for free
before. Think about this: it’s an independent label, but all those old classics
were on independent labels. “The Bridge is Over” was on B-Boy records. All those
classics were on little independent labels back then but now they’re classics
all over the world. Never underestimate the power of your music. I don’t care if
no one invests in you. If you buy a little CD burner, you could be a label
yourself. I do that. I don’t tie those CDs to Percee P Records or anything but
still, I do it to keep my name out there. And it’s all over the world. I have a
website, which anyone can get. Get a postbox… you got yourself a record label.
If you don’t believe in you, who’s going to believe in you. So, that’s what I
did. But you can’t expect it to happen overnight. I was out there for years
before anything happened. I didn’t give up. I didn’t get distracted,
disillusioned, give up. I always felt in my heart that I still have it. It’s up
to me to let the people know cos I’m not gonna wait for a label to put me on
before I can let anybody know I can rhyme. I’m getting better with time. A old
of people think that I’m old skool so I can’t elevate or progress, but to me,
I’m just more experienced. I’ve been rhyming since 1979 and it’s 2004, I should
be great right? Believe in your product, and no one from the outside will be
able to doubt someone who’s been doing it for so long.
563: You’re on the tightest MCs, lyrically and flow-wise, you’ve always had
that ability to amaze the listener with your delivery, cos it’s quite complex.
 PP:
I never wanted to be an average MC. The old pioneers… I listen to a lot of old
soul, blues, jazz… the Delfonics, Blue Magic, that kinda music but when I’m
listening, I’m listening to the aspect of their singing… their style. When you
hear the Temptations, you know it’s them. I think that way. The old skool
pioneers like Kool Moe Dee also thought that way. They didn’t start out to be
average. They were always trying to go to the next level. I always had that in
mind. If there’s twenty MCs, I don’t want to sound like anybody else. Out of 20,
I wanna one of the 4 or 5 that when you hear them, you know it’s them. So many
rappers… what makes you different? Everybody has different fingerprints. So when
you come out as an artist, you want to stand out of a big crowd. I don’t want to
do what everybody else is doing or talk about the same thing. I think I move
with the times too but I try and stay ahead. I work with artists who are out
now. I still want to sound like Percee P. I don’t want to sound like I go with
the flow. I don’t want to go against the grain but I want to do it my way and
that’s key to me. Like with the album title, “Percee-verence”…. I have a slogan:
“There’s something that every artist needs to have to make it in this business
and something that every hip-hop artist needs in their collection… “Percee-verence.”
NS: When you started rapping in the early 70’s… and watching hip-hop grow at
the same time as your rhyming skills, what are your memories of that time?
PP:
I grew up in the Bronx and hip-hop was still young. It was going on before I
started even rhymng. It was going on in 73-74 and I started rhyming in 79. There
was years of just standing around watching. Being around my uncle who was down
with T-Le Rock, in a crew called the “Undefeated Force” and my uncle taught my
oldest brother. We used to go to my grandmother’s house to watch him. So my
brother started a crew called the “Undefeated Four”, sorry the “Fabulous Four”
and we were watching. We were trying to do it too but we so young so no one
thought to put us on the microphone and jam. We were in the house, doing
routines and rhyming. It was good to grow with that. I wasn’t as complex then as
I am now but I was still doing it. There was a routine with two MCs… you had to
have routines. People nowadays ain’t used to that but with Jurassic 5, that’s
the norm cos it was the norm back in the day, people harmonising and stuff. Back
in the days too, you could tell that all the hip-hop artists listened to RnB.
Their routines were taken off RnB songs. They rapped off tracks like “Good
Times” and “Chic”, “Get Down”, all those disco records that were out.
"...Believe
in your product, and no one from the outside will be able to doubt someone who’s
been doing it for so long..."
Now you
have Puffy come out and people are like he’s rapping over old disco tunes. But
to me, that’s the origins of hip-hop. Think about it. Why do you think? What
were people rhyming off in the beginning? You weren’t rapping over other
rapper’s instrumentals, you were rapping over “Good Times” or whatever’ Plus,
hip-hop was whatever you made it. It wasn’t like you had to rap over this or
that or you weren’ hip-hop. You did whatever you wanted to do. Bambataa was
going against the grain and using records like SunRa and Rolling Stones and Big
Beat. And we’d never heard that. Me and my moms listened to like James Brown and
Jackson Five. People like Bambataa exposed us to other cultures, other
countries. To them hip-hop was universal. To him and to Kool Herc putting us up
on stuff we would never have been exposed to. To us, that made other people
looking for all kinds of stuff. Like country or whatever. People would take
something that wasn’t hiphop, like James Brown or Otis Redding and turn it into
hip-hop. MC Hammer did that with “Superfreak”. That helped the music. We listen
to the music and we sample it but it’s important we acknowledge what they do and
their artistry.
NS:
You get occasions where you take a well-known sample or break, it takes that
to a younger audience and they’ll source the original.
PP:
And that’s revenue. As an artist, you never want to be forgotten. Some records
get released and noone really knew but when a hip-hop artist flips it, he makes
your record become more classic in the present day so you should be proud.
Hopefully, a lot of the RnB artists would start collaborating with pioneers,
like hip-hop artists do. I wish more hip-hop artists would do what Jurassic 5
did with me and Big Daddy Kane. A lot of hip-hop artists only want to work with
present day artists, like Eminem or Busta Rhymes. You can’t think like that, cos
everybody needs a chance sometimes. You can expose the world to more artists
besides the same old artists doing features. RnB artists need to do the same.
"...Over
here, in the UK, people appreciate everything. They don’t worry about now. They
appreciate the history..."
All these legendary people like the Stylistics still sing. I see video DVDs of
old soul singers still doing it and they can still sing. So why do you say, why
don’t we do a song with the Delfonics or something? If you really love them so
much and you got a deal, why don’t you help them? Don’t wait for people to die.
I’m happy I’m out here right now. But I wish it was like this for me in America.
I get love but come on. Every legendary artist you think should have it did but
a lot of us are still struggling. I don’t want to be dead before people show me
some love. I wish people like Kool Herc could be living like Russell Simmons
right now. Why do they have to be struggling? Why can’t they get a job at a
radio station anytime? When they die, it’ll be like, oh, if it wasn’t for Kool
Herc, I wouldn’t be doing it. But while he’s still alive, why can’t you put him
on your album. That’s why when I do shows, I still put their names out there.
 563: Jurassic 5 brought that Cold Crush sound back. It sounds like they were
heavily influenced by that. Over here, people went back and checked it, so over
here… it bridged that gap.
PP:
At the same time, they bring the pioneers out on stage. I have been to shows and
they’ve brought those pioneers on stage. “This is Kool Herc, or this is
Grandmaster Flash. If it weren’t for them, we wouldn’t be here.” They get on
stage. That’s dope if you have the power to do that.
NS:
A lot of American artists who aren’t as well known as P Diddy or Fifty Cent
who come over here say that Europe shows them a lot more love. Why do you think
that places like the UK or France or Germany respect the pioneers more?
PP:
In America, everybody is caught up in the present, in the right now. If you
ain’t hot now, you ain’t nobody. You’re only as good as your last record. If you
have something out now, you good now. Why can’t you be great for alltime? You
need to show more pride for your history, not who are out right now. Show the
youth who you were listening to. Show who Run DMC were listening to. They were
listening to Cold Crush or Grandmaster Flash’s parties and stuff. People need to
see that. They don’t need to see that after he’s dead and gone. That would have
been dope. People like MC Shan and KRS-One can still make a song together and
collaborate. Remind people. I know they did a battle but why don’t they do it
now. They’re still alive, do it now.
"...People
were saying that Stones Throw was a good label. I was watching what they were
doing, and they were putting out good music, not following trends, so I decided
this was the type of label I could put music out with..."
I was a big Shan fan when I was rhyming.
People sometimes are so phony. Like Ja Rule, before Fifty came out, all people
were talking about was Ja Rule. Now Fifty’s out, they all forgotten about him.
Even though it wasn’t my style, he was still making hits. But as soon as Fifty
came out, everyone was like, I hate Ja Rule. I can’t stand him. Five minutes
ago, you were buying his records, playing them at every party! People so phony.
When the next person comes out, they gonna say Fifty Cent’s corny. Over here, in
the UK, people appreciate everything. They don’t worry about now. They
appreciate the history. Even the artists who aren’t around now. That’s what I
love about Peanutbutter Wolf and those guys, they appreciate. Even if the stuff
never made it, they’ll still put it out if they like it. They know it’s old
skool and they’ll put it out there. If I was a DJ, that’s what I would do. I’d
expose people to stuff like that. If you’re a radio DJ, you’re responsible for
what people are listening to. You have the power to change what’s going on. Like
Funkmaster Flex. People and other stations are looking up to you. If you’re
playing it, it must be hot so other people will play it. Expose them to the old
skool, the beats that they heard first from other DJs like Herc.
NS:
I think that dub was the start of it. Playing dubs and acetates of stuff that
other people didn’t have. Battling people through exclusives and old classics.
That doesn’t happen anymore really.
PP:
That’s right. That’s what I like about Edan. I was introduced to him through
some guy from DC. And he said there’s this guy, you gotta hear him. He bigged me
up on the record. He came to a show I did in DC and I hooked him up with the
show. He gave me Primitive Plus. He’s so young but he appreciate his history. He
put out there what he wanted people to know about. And through him doing that,
people knew about me. Nowadays people ain’t got no excuse to know about other
artists. Back in the day, you had to depend on radio for exposure. How far the
range of the radio went was how many people knew about you. Or making tapes and
giving people copies. Now, radio is worldwide and on the internet. Even if you
ain’t got a record deal, give people CDs. Burn them yourself. Those same songs
could end up on the radio worldwide.
It was then time to go check the Biz, so we left it at that. A humble,
magnificent man and an incredible mic technician. If you're around New York and
see him, please go buy his CD.
-
Nikesh Shukla
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