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As we begin the interview, ten floors above street level in West London, Saigon seems in good spirits. He's been bouncing around the UK for a couple of days now, just generally soaking up the vibes. He's definitely feeling the love. "They've been supporting me out here for a long time." He says "To come out here and feel it is a great thing, man." The first time this writer heard of Saigon was a single on Rawkus Records in the late 1990's called Say Yes, shortly before the fabled indie imprint got mired in major label politics. Within the first four bars he had shown two distinct sides to his personality. "Before we did rap, we did kidnaps, murders…" sat right next to "While y'all niggas are out clubbin/ I be deep in discussion/ trying to convince my little cousin not to Blood in…" To quote dead prez, he's "somewhere between NWA and PE." After a hard day's promo in London - the dimunitive, but brolic rapper is still surprisingly energetic ahead of his show in Brixton, cracking jokes to illustrate even the most serious of his points. Don't get it twisted though - just because you may have seen him on TV, don't think the limelight has changed him. At times he comes across unrepentantly Brooklyn. Later that night, when the crowd appears to be fading a little during his PA, Saigon asks them what's up, before turning to his hype man and saying "Oh, I know what they want - they want some of that G shit". On cue, DJ Scram Jones drops the Alchemist produced mixtape favourite, 'Stocking Cap'. The crowd surges forward as The Yardfather drops New York hardrock couplets over the soulful loop.
The conversation turns to the first leg of the race to the White House "I really don't think it would make that much of a difference if we had a Black president" he pauses. "Black is not a colour. Black is a state of mind" he turns to his interviewer - "There's people that are darker than me and you , that think like white men. There are people that are Black and make it out the ghetto and decide they don't want anything to do with Black people." "I think Barak Obama is a Black man though. He's got a Black mentality. But I really don't think he's gonna win, first of all, and he's running against Hillary Clinton - I guarantee you, we'll see a White woman as president before we see a Black man. It's funny because we always used to have that debate in prison, and my man used to say, 'They'll make a white woman president before they'll make a black man.' That's the way it goes - 'White Man then White Woman, then Black Man and Black Woman.'"
"There was a time when women didn't have no rights. Women couldn't vote and they had to fight for that because America's a patriarchal society. It's male dominated. I really seriously doubt Baraka would win. If he did win and he became effective? They'd kill him." - he adds emphatically, before chuckling. "If he stared to make moves and make shit better for us, to where our schools were getting better and we could start to compete? They'd kill him. They'd wipe him out - It would be time for him to go."
Being the first rapper signed to Just Blaze's Fort Knox imprint, you know Saigon gets to hear bangers being made from scratch. "Kingdom Come was my beat" he says, referring to the monstrous re-working of Rick James' Superfreak on Jay-Z's 2006 album. "I took it. And then Jay heard it and said 'Nah - I want that.' And Jay took it. But there's a version of that with me airing that shit out…" He promises to unleash it on the world someday. "But Jay's a good friend of mine. He laced me with a verse on my album." The collaboration was recently sneakily previewed on Just's you tube channel. The beat is all soaring vocal samples and nimble fretwork over rock hard drums. The snippets of the verse that you can catch are typical Saigon - a little braggadocio mixed with slick punch lines. The joint is called 'Don'tcha Baby' - "That record alone can save hip-hop alone." Sai grins, "It's that dope - it could bring hip hop back with a vengeance." Having cleared the red tape, 'The Greatest Story Never Told' is primed. He reveals that his debut is to be the first in a trilogy. The second and third parts will be 'The Moral Of The Story' and 'Dear Black America'. He had originally intended to call his debut 'Dear Black America' but the label, apparently felt the title was "too edgy." Last year's single 'Pain In My Life' paved the way for Sai's major label entry into the industry. Featuring his kindred souls from the two other coasts (BG and The Game) on the remix, probably put his name on a few lips in places where New York rappers might be seen as throwbacks to the good old days of Helle Hansen jackets and gold ropes. Saigon, however, insists that he has something for everyone on his album "I got a record with Faith Evans that'll make you cry, my nigga," he continues. "You can play it for your grandmother, your mother, your little sister - I ain't limit myself…The shit sounds like a gospel song - I had a choir in there when I was recording and one girl, was like 'Damn, is this gospel or hip-hop?' - It's just music." Overall, you get the feeling he's pleased with the result of his work "I'm happy about the album, we've just finished it up. I think Just Blaze gave me his best beats. I think I came with my best rhymes. We've got an ultimate classic that's gonna be relevant for years and years to come."
The story goes that The Yardfather and The Snowman were neck and neck in the running until they listened to the music of both candidates - That put Sai over the top. "That's how I got the part - Doug Ellin and Mark Wahlberg. Big shout out to them brothers." When asked about his ideal film role, he pauses, writing the dialogue in his head, developing the character's back-story as he goes "I would like to play a hitman. Someone who kills all oppressive people. I'd like to go after corrupt cops, corrupt judges and shit and pick 'em off. Whether you're white or black; If you're corrupt, if you fucked up then I'm gonna pick you off," he laughs " I think that would be a good movie." Despite having seen the bright lights of Hollywood he doesn't seem quite ready to buy his ticket for the rollercoaster lifestyle of Vincent Chase & friends. Sai is looking to 'save the babies' like Marvin said. He founded Abandoned Nation - an organisation that looks out for the the children of people in jail. He used his "little bit of celebrity" to get more kids involved in an existing programme. When he linked up with In Arms Reach (a like minded group) there were around 30 kids involved. Now, he says the number is up around 80. "We reconnect kids whose parents who are incarcerated - whether it's your mother or your father. We just keep that family structure together. We bring these kids up to see their parents for free. We give them school clothes, Bookbank Foundation gives them books and we teach them the importance of education. We let them know without an education you don't have a shot at life. Fuck your flag, nigga. That nerd with the glasses you laughing at, is gonna grow up to be your attorney. You're gonna have to pay him to get you out of trouble. You're calling him a dweeb, right now because you got new Jordans, but he's gonna be the one you call up like 'I got 3 to 6.…'" He's also up to speed with the media storm that kicked up surrounding black on black violence in the UK earlier this year. His demeanour changes, when asked about the incidents that had a lot of politicians finger pointing but not really offering any sort of solutions. "A lot of that is to do with hip-hop music. Because these kids over here believe that these rappers really live like that. They believe New York is like that. New York is one of the safest cities in America. There's only like three neighbourhoods where you can go and really get into some fucked up shit. Through perception is that everybody's a killer - they hide behind an image. You ever seen CB4? That's what going on there's a bunch of MC Gustos." He had heard about Rhymefest's afternoon tea meeting with David Cameron too "Yeah," he smiles "Rhymefest was gangsta for that one…"
"A lot of young kids who are indulging in the violence - I just let them know - If you don't want a shot at life go down that road. There comes a time in your life when you have to decide who you are…" Saigon faced a similar choice, back when he was just young Brian Carenard, at the age of 15. He was charged with two shootings - both victims survived - and he spent 6 years in jail. He has told a story in the past about meeting some of the MC's, he looked up to as a youngster because of their gangsta swagger, only to find out that they did not live up to their 'in the booth' personas in the flesh.
And now, with the promoter appearing to hurry along proceedings, Sai leans over the dictaphone to deliver his final statement. "I just wanna say 'Peace and love' to everybody in the UK. Thank you for the love! Hopefully I'll come back, and we can keep this thing moving. Stop the violence - stop killing each other, cos we're gonna need each other one day… Especially if it's over something not worth taking a life for. If it's over someone ice grilling you or trying to talk to your girl, or some dumb shit like that, that's ignorant. And Ignorance is bliss so it's up to you to be an independent thinker and make the right decision. You know what Nas said? He had this one line - "I tried to school/ told them don't let niggas fool 'em/ 'cos when the pistol blow/ the one that's murdered be the cool one." We don't know what comes after life, but I do know one thing: I seen dudes sit in their cell on 45 years to life and every day their life is torture. Every. Day. If they had the heart to hang [themselves], they would. Some dudes do, 'Like, fuck it - I'd rather die.' And all because they'll pulled a trigger." Thanks to all who made this interview possible. Gee and Mak at Undaground Promotions, Jimmy @ Reverend Media, DJ Snuff (Speakers Corner), Big C and Saigon
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© ukhh.com 2007
Saigon Interview
I finally tracked him down after 3 years of searching, before his first show in London to talk about hip-hop's effect on kids, Barak Obama's chances of reaching The White House, his stint on a hit TV show and his rumoured collaboration with President Carter. 
He's not afraid to talk politics, either. When asked about the backlash against rappers after radio DJ Don Imus' use of the phrase "nappy headed hoes" to describe a Black women's sports team, he says "That's just them flexing they muscle - that's the powers that be just showing us, black people that even though we created this created this music and made them billions of dollars, they're still controlling it. They're playing games with our minds, to let us know they're still in control of this shit, regardless of how big it is, regardless we created it in the South Bronx. Why don't you censor the movies when Arnold Scwarzenegger kills 85,000 people with a machine gun? And now he's the governor? Get real…"
"The reason why Jesse Jackson and Farrakhan are even still alive is because they're not effective." He continues. "The only time you see them is when they get shot by the police and the cameras is rolling. Then Al Sharpton comes outside, then he's back up in his cave 'til something else happens. He's not proactive - He's reactive. We need proactive Black leaders, man. We need Malcolm X's and Martin Luther Kings, we need Huey P. Newtons, we need Nat Turners, Frederick Douglas' and Harriet Tubmans. They're not born anymore, man. That's what I want to be - through rap. Muthafuckas is cowards. There's too many cowards in the Black race. People are scared to die, you're gonna die anyway - some people will go to Iraq and die for a country that doesn't even love them. Why not die for something that you believe in?"
A certain amount of the rap game comes down to an X factor. Call it hustle. It could be the stars aligning. Perhaps it's just good luck. Two years ago, Saigon found himself in the cast of HBO's hit comedy Entourage during its second season. The character wasn't a real stretch for him. He was, after all, playing a talented up and coming rapper called Saigon. It seems, though, that the man from Rockland County got a kick out of his small screen debut . "I enjoyed the outcome of it, because it kinda sustained my career a little longer. It gave me more light." he says. "It was fun, man - all them dudes is cool. I got on the show because my man knew one of the producers over there and they wanted a rapper on the show - they already had an idea for Turtle (Jerry Ferrara) to be a manager, but they didn't want someone who was too big, but then they didn't want somebody who was unknown - they wanted somebody who was about to break. It was between me and [Young] Jeezy, before for he even came out."
This made him all too aware of the smoke and mirrors of the music industry. "Rap only shows half of the coin - That's like you telling me 'Hey go into that room and chill' but you don't tell me there's a gorilla in there that'll beat my fuckin' head in…You're only giving me one side of the story. When they show the Bloods and The Crips, the gang signs and the Crip Walk, they don't show the mother crying over a coffin. Or the kid layin down with his head all over the sidewalk…" Saigon then goes on to point a finger at record executives, as the main benefactors of these violent stereotypes, before drawing lines between the hip-hop inspired crime rate and the economy - namely the prison 'business'. " Life starts at a young age like 12/13. No-one tells kids that. Right now I feel like rap is raising Black kids." he says "We've just got to get it together and we'll be in good shape - my album's gonna change the world. Mark my words."
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