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  Ugly Duckling Interview
interview 0599 added 22.11.09 words:
Joseph Foote
technical:
Spoon
All music fanatics have certain memories of their first real live gig. You can forget about when your parents dragged you to see their favorite Irish Folk Band or your school’s annual talent show, or maybe that’s just me. But I believe I attended my first real live show at the age of 14 to see Long Beach Hip Hop collective Ugly Duckling. That night they played to a crowd of 150-200 within a small dingy nightclub in Manchester named Magic-box. My brother who put me on to UD at the time managed to sneak me in past the bouncer who had more facial tattoos than Lil Wayne. Either the nightclub was very slack on their underage policy or this guy was too roided up to notice I was younger than anyone there. Either way I was happy because that night I got to embrace two MC’s and a DJ control the crowd like only the “Old School” torch bearers of rap know how. Seven years later I find out Ugly Duckling are playing in my hometown York and I make it my mission to set up my first ever face to face interview with the guys who got me interested in live music. I caught up Dizzy Dustin and Young Einstein to talk about the new album Audacity, Kamikazi Records, the state of Hip Hop and meeting DJ Premier.....
What’s changed for Ugly Duckling since that gig in Manchester?
[Dizzy Dustin] As far as what we’ve morphed into... I think we’re more of a mature group. Especially with this last album Audacity. We’ve tried to take on board everything we’ve done but at the same time make it convenient, as well as trying to push the envelope a bit more - get more melody involved into the album. I think we did a good job in doing that, but only time will tell. We might be here two years down the line thinking, “that album was shit! We failed miserably”. But we’ve always been known for the party vibe, the good hip hop and this album was almost like sitting on a shrinks bed and putting all of your problems on paper and music. Now its about pushing it and getting it out there. We got songs on there that sound very melancholy!
Andy’s singing a bit on it isn’t he!
[DD] Ye, Andy is the type of person who always wants to push the envelope and be more creative - he’s the most creative person I know. Whether dropping lyrics or working with production he’s a very creative person. He may of got a little bored with what we were doing and wanted to try something new. But he still didn’t want to be seen as the vocal point of Ugly Duckling, he wanted to make sure it’s still about the production and what Einstein brings to the table. But at the same time he definitely wanted to branch out and make it all more melodic and I think he captured that!
 How does it work when you get in the studio. How does the song-writing process go?
[DD] Einstein will give us a CD of like 30 snippets. With a bunch of different tracks then we’ll pick like 2 or 3 from those 30. We’ll come together start writing to those tracks. And then Andy and Einstein will go back to the studio, start creating again and make the beat come to life. I mean I’m a lyricist, Ill take a simple sample and I’ll to write to that. It’s Einstein who will start piling everything up - Einstein uses us like an instrument, we’re not rappers at all to him - “I could use a bassline here or a flute” but we’re just instruments to him.
Is it all sample based?
[Young Einstein] Ye it is!
[DD] (laughs) sssshhh no its not!
I find it interesting if you follow a group like Outkast you can tell as the career has gone on the split between the group becomes more evident just by listening to their songs. The same with groups such as Wu Tang, you can almost tell when a track has been made over the internet. Surely it’s got to affect output hugely! That ever happen with you guys at all?
[YE] Not yet!
[DD] The honesty of it all - us as a group we’ve been doing music together for a long time. Like since ’93. We know how to work together, we know where our strong points are, where our weak points are and if I didn’t have Einstein or Andy in the group we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing. Thats the bottom line. Like I said before I’m a lyricist I just love to write, everything else is over my head, but I can see with a group like Outkast and the whole thing of gelling together and doing what they do to make it happen. With us thats never happened, we know the chemistry of what works with us and what we have to do.
I’d personally put Journey to Anywhere in my top 10 hip hop albums of all time and production plays a huge part in that choice! I saw a picture floating around of you (Young Einstein) and DJ Premier. Id say DJ Premier is my favorite producer of all time, so to see you two together was great! Do you know primo?
[YE] I don’t know him personally. I mean Primo is a hero to me! He’s one of the reasons I do what I do. I actually met him at Splash Festival where Gangstarr were also playing. That was a great day for me. That day we actually played in-front of 30,000 - 40,000 people. But I’d prefer a gig like todays, where you have 200 people up close and personal all going insane. At Splash and things like that, I felt disconnected from the crowd they were almost too far away! But its all good!
Going back to that gig in Manchester you had MC Abdominal and DJ Format supporting. I remember he came out sucking helium through a balloon and rapping in a high pitch. You had your traits - you opened up with Opening Act. But now i see you doing all sorts, I mean you brought out a random guy from the crowd, who also happens to be in a wheelchair who then tears up the microphone. Is your stage show something you perfected?
[DD] With Abdominal going back to that - that balloon was never filled with helium, sorry to put Abdominal on blast. He just had the perfect skill to pull it off! With us I think its more about just being skilled and knowing where we’re at. We know how to feed off each other, I know how to feed off Einstein, he knows how to work off Andy and so on. To the point where its just a chemistry thing. Every night we perform we bring an MC up on stage and showcase some talent out there! Tonight this guy came up, drove a long way to see us and told me “I MC”! I was like ok, you be ready. When the time came to bring him up, he came on stage and did a great job! I was happy with that!
I also checked out the new label you just started, Kamikazi Airlines (www.kamikaziairlines.com). What can you tell us about that project?
[DD] With Kamikazi I want people to hear about different groups coming out of my area, to be fair I’ve got artists from Chicago on there as well. It gets to the point where I just want to push them to the forefront. I just want to make sure these groups are heard, I don’t plan to make money from them - Its called Kamikazi Airlines for a reason! You’ve got to be crazy to start a record label these days, with the amount of MP3’s and free music its like why start a record label? But why not if its all free music its free music - you can get these groups on the road and have them doing their own thing!
I just finished University and in my dissertation I wrote a piece on how the Internet has affected the music industry, how has it affected you guys?
 [YE] With us its been great!
[DD] Ye it’s worked with us! But once you get to that level to where you start making significant money you start to see the negative affects. It’s a great starting tool and promotion tool to get groups heard. “Here’s all the free music you need!” But once you start making big money and your marketable it can kill you. But with Kamikazi I’ve already got an avenue, hopefully I can use it to get some of these other groups heard.
Do you personally fund these groups?
[DD] Ye i fund them, everything is from my pocket and thats the another reason Im going all out. I’ve got just enough fuel to reach the intended target. I don’t know about making it home but..
The group that caught me off guard was Vox Merger (www.voxmerger.com). They’re making some real quality hip hop! You can see appearances from KRS One....
[DD] We got KRS One, Dilated People, Sly and the Family Stone, La Koka Nostra! We work with a lot of artists on the label and its all for the love of it. Lets make the music and see what people think of it, if they like it they like it, if they don’t they don’t.
What’s happening with the Blown Celebs (myspace.com/blownceleb) project?
[DD] Its something I’ve been working on for the last 8 years. Me and my partner have been performing and working for a long long time. its just at the point now where we’re ready to put the album out. And people look at me like its not Ugly Duckling sounding, its harder than UD. I love boom bap, I love hardcore Hip Hop! We started Ugly Duckling in ’93 and thats still my number one love, but there’s something inside of me that wants to do this.
Some of your lyrics on that sound a bit more aggressive than your usual. You mention in one line pulling a trigger finger...
[DD] But I’m not talking about gun triggers, I’m talking about being in the cockpit, the management of Kamikazi. It’s the same with “Shoot your Shot” with Ugly Duckling, we’re not talking about shooting people, I’m not a gang-banger, I’m not killing people. It’s a metaphor - it’s like “my trigger fingers ready steady” I got to be ready musically, I got to be ready to pull it out. Ye its darker beats but its still me! To be honest I’m really fed up with the rap game, the pop scene and there is no more hardcore street stuff. So it’s a mix of that, but its all metaphoric in terms of the whole Kamikazi thing - we’re gonna hit these guys hard but we may go down in flames. I mean its a big risk!
You guys have been over here quite a few times. There are some groups that never come over here. I mean Ghostface is a favorite of mine, he is here once every blue moon.
[DD] He’s probably got passport issues, it’s probably child support issues (laughs) believe me he would if he could. But we do good in the States. The thing with us is we have to work real hard. We have to work every continent, I mean we got Asia, Australia, Europe, the U.S....
 Do you enjoy the traveling side?
[DD] I do enjoy it but it’s very tiring like now I got a 2 year old son. And whilst I love coming to see all you guys its very hard to leave the family behind.
You’ve been working for 15 plus years now, and the thing that amazed me about tonight was the level of excitement you still bring...
[DD] Ye since 93 and we’ve been touring since 98 its been a long haul! A major asset to our group is our stage shows no doubt about it. I mean if we don’t have a crowd, we’re stuck so we give everything we have or the shows would never work..
I think they can tell your enjoying it which is a major factor
[DD] We have to! The thing about musicians nowadays or even back in the days, they don’t realize that the crowd is a bigger part of the show than you. But once you figure it out like, ok these are the people that can pay my rent, these are the people that support the group - they have to be involved in the show! When we perform they know that they are going to be horse like I’m horse. They’re just as active as we are on stage! We got to bring a performance where we get the crowd involved, I mean James Brown did it forever, the crowd it’s a big part of our shows. It’s very important to us that a crowd is there and they come back!
I read somewhere that performing back home in Long Beach can be a little difficult at times
[DD] We do love performing at Long Beach but its like a thousand friends and they know exactly what we do. It’s hard to even charge for the show people are “I’m on the guest-list, I’m his cousin, I’m this, I’m that” So it gets to a point where you cant even perform in your home town anymore.
Do you ever get to see any places when you tour. Have you seen anything of York at all?
[DD] Not yet I hope to catch it in the morning. But the main part of touring is just to come out and enjoy people coming to rock with us at our shows. We’re always grateful for people coming out to our shows and rocking with us. Its like Hip Hop is Hip Hop and music is music.
How do you see hip hop now?
[DD] I’m not sure yet. I keep thinking that it’s still there, but it’s so Pop and commercialized now where groups like us struggle to survive. We’re very fortunate to survive, I’ve seen our friends in the industry break up and not be there any more. With us we’ve been very fortunate with the hip hop culture as a whole - it’s now gearing towards the glamour, the glitz. Its getting worse now, it’s almost like we’re going back to the 80s, like everyone is wearing tight jeans and colorful vests, the fade, there’s no more creating going on. There is no groups coming out where “we want our own sound”. When you listen to Ugly Duckling you know it’s Ugly Duckling and there is no more hip hop like that, you don’t see groups coming out making their own sound and hip hop needs that. I think thats the death of hip hop - people trying to sound like something their not, there’s a whole lot of copying. And thats the music industry from the jump, it all goes in circles but to stand out you definitely have to do your own thing.
So is there anyone out now at all that you like?
[DD] Its hard for me to say. Im not trying to push the label or nothing. If you like Ugly Duckling you’ll like the Argyle Pimps (myspace.com/argylepimps) - they have a great stage presence, their very good live, they have a great stage presence. They are one of those groups that does a lot to earn those stripes which is rare
 I’ve seen one of their videos the other day, they are pretty crazy!
[DD] They are out of their minds! I always mention to them that they need to take their meds, I’m like “I think it’s time for your medication bro”!
Ugly Ducklings most recent album 'Audacity' was out earlier in the year, available everywhere now along with the rest of their extensive back catalogue from 10 years of releasing output. The live shows in the UK are just about finished, if you're quick you can catch them in Brighton on Monday 23rd, otherwise you'd better head over to France and Switzerland before christmas! Perth would be a great place to be for new years eve with a lineup including Ugly Duckling, Meth & Redman, Roots Manuva, Dilated Peoples, Skream, Benga, LTJ Bukem. Jeez, where's the plane to Oz!?!
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Joseph Foote
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