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  Zebra Traffic / Tru Thoughts Interview
interview 0404 added
10.05.06 words: Mr
Lingo
technical:
QED
Zebra Traffic & Tru Thoughts are two of the freshest
and best UK labels of the moment. With Zebra Traffic being an off-shoot of Tru Thoughs, and both consistently bringing quality hip-hop and fresh beats to the UK scene for a number of years, it seemed that now was the time for Mr Lingo to catch up with the two A&R guys, Rob Luis & Tom Simpson, and find out the secrets to their Giles Peterson award winning success...
Lingo: Guys, thanks for taking time out to do this interview. Tell us all a bit more about yourselves and what you do?
RL: I am A&R and co-owner of Tru Thoughts. I generally am involved with supporting everyone with the label but thankfully all our office crew (Joe, Camilla, Alex and Karl) are working hard managing their side of things.
 TS: I’m A&R for Zebra Traffic and, again with the help of the office set up (above), generally run Zebra Traffic. I used to handle worldwide distribution for Tru Thoughts Records but now concentrate specifically on Zebra.
L: So when did you decide to start up a label?
RL: I had done a record label with a friend previous to this and we made loads of bad business mistakes. My friend then decided that the bullshit involved with selling records was too much for him (which I can understand). So I decided to go alone and when I started Tru Thoughts in 1999 I knew I wanted to make sure that there was no compromise on the music and that the business side would be tighter.
TS: I started doing work experience at Tru Thoughts around 2001/2002, one day a week, then 2 days a week. Doing all sorts from mailouts, to flyering and postering, to putting shelves up, making tea etc etc. Then one of their staff decided to leave and a wage became available. At the same time Rob Luis wanted to set up a specific UK Hip Hop Label and I was just in the right place at the right time.
L: What were your reasons? Was it to give a platform to artists that hadn’t been heard yet, or was it just an idea?
RL: The main thing for me is that I knew there are good artists out there who should be making a living from music and it was possible to do that. Bonobo was the first artist album we released he recorded it with a sampler, Atari and a 4 track mixing desk and it sold 20,000 copies. We didn’t do adverts or videos it was purely word of mouth. If the music’s good and you work hard that’s sometimes enough.
TS: My reasons were that I could (just about) make a living doing what I loved! Rob had an album from Diversion Tactics waiting to go and it was around the same time that Mark B passed us a demo solo album from Life (Phi-Life Cypher) who wanted to release solo material alongside PLC music. It was around the time when Mark B & Blade were getting big – so he didn’t have time to put it out on his own label.
“...the market for UK Hip Hop still isn’t that big. But there’s really no point in moaning about it is there...”
L: Where did the names for each label come from? Not many Zebra’s in Brighton…
RL: I really wanted to have the word Thoughts as part of the name and the day before I had to decide I was round my mates Paul Greenfield and he had Pete Rock’s Tru Master 12” at the top of his record box and it just made sense to call it Tru Thoughts.
 TS: I don’t know – you gotta ask Rob Luis that one…! I think he wanted the label name to start with an A or Z so it would be stocked right at the beginning or the end of the shelves in record shops. But I reckon its cos he’s a little crazy.
L: Who really set things in motion, and got things together? Was it all in together? (No Homo)
RL: I did!!! No…without Tom we couldn’t have started the label and Tom is now taking more of an active day to day involvement with the label on business and A&R to push things along so he is Zebra Traffic’s rock (like Paul Burrell was to Diana!!!!).
TS: yeah…that’s real funny…Zebra Traffic was going to happen with or without me, so Rob was the driving force. I was also learning the ropes so I cant take much of the credit for early on, but as my experience grew and I learned, confidence came and it became more natural to step up a bit. I do everything now…We were lucky with Zebra because all the systems (distribution, press, publishing, promo) were in place for Tru Thoughts – Zebra got a real boost from that.
L: Was that hard? Did you feel like jacking it in?
RL: Never. We always chat to other artists and labels and Braintax is someone who I always feel inspired by after catching up with him. I feel many of the people involved in hip hop in the UK now are realistic about why you do it…at the moment we aren’t going to compete sales wise with what majors do but musically the independent artists are miles ahead.
TS: It is still hard as the market for UK Hip Hop still isn’t that big. But there’s really no point in moaning about it is there? There’s a real problem with all this going on about the corrupt industry and the stagnant scene etc. If you’re having no fun, and ain't selling records then why are you still involved in it? Just go get another job – its not the end of the world! There are a handful of artists who make a decent living selling records and a load of people who can get paid well to do regular shows, there just nee to be more. So we are getting there.
“...Immortal Technique…too few people out of hip hop know about him and I feel he could make an impact like Public Enemy did on the whole of the music industry...”
L: Did you have a plan of what music you wanted to put out, and who you wanted?
TS: I guess with running an independent label you have the luxury of releasing music that you like or feel strongly about. That’s a real bloody good thing! Obviously you have to be savvy about what people are into but as Rob said before: indie labels create some of the best, most cutting edge music out there cos they’re more flexible than huge lumbering multinationals. We just wanted to release quality conscious hip hop from this country.
L: Do you remember the first release on each of the labels?
RL: It was my mate Dan from Steady and he’s one of those people who always has good luck (goes to a cash machine and finds £50 next to it) so I thought it would be good to start with a release from him!!!!
TS: Diversion Tactics featuring J-Zone, Hug & Al-Shid – Pounds & Cents EP. A strong first release.
L: The success has been massive; could you ever really expect the success to come so quickly?
 RL: We are pleased with what we have achieved.
TS: there’s still a long way to go.
L: Is there anyone you’d like to sign that you haven’t?
RL: Immortal Technique. If we ever had an artist go platinum I would love to be able to invest in someone like Immortal Technique…too few people out of hip hop know about him and I feel he could make an impact like Public Enemy did on the whole of the music industry i.e. you don’t need to bland down to sell records.
TS: yeah that’d be cool. Also feeling DJ Mentat at the moment and Roots Manuva! Being based outside of London has both advantages and disadvantages. It takes a while for London people to take notice if the music/label/artists aren’t on their doorstep, but conversely it means that a lot of talent from outside of London takes more notice.
L: Why not!?
RL: We tried to license the album for Europe but they said they are happy with what they are doing. If Braintax ever decides to stop Lowlife his roster would be great too including him!!!
TS: Yeah – come on Joey The Brain; stop hogging all the big artists!
L: How difficult has it been to break through in each field?
RL: I think anyone who is making or releasing creative music finds it hard but I often say to the artists the struggle makes their music better. I always believe good music always rises to the top at some point (even if it takes years). On bit of a deeper level when you are releasing and making music you truly believe in it is good for the soul and that is 100 times more rewarding than having more money than you need.
TS: Its been fairly tough but that means that the rewards feel even better when they come. I really reckon that more artists need to think more long term. Don’t release an album then sit back and wait to become famous. As soon as you’ve mastered that album start the next! Then when you’ve got 4/5/6 albums – a decent back catalogue, the PRS cheques start getting bigger and the royalties start to increase. Make sure you understand Music Publishing and licensing as you can make decent money from that without selling any records.
“...The reality is you need to work hard, have strong music but you need some good luck too...”
L: Was the ‘Business’ as you expected?
RL: Initially I was shocked that for many the music business is 99% business and 1% music but now I can deal with it.
TS: I didn’t expect anything – as I was new to it all. I just built up a picture as I learned and try to adapt as best you can to any obstacles.
L: Did you have much help from others in the industry?
RL: Lots of help and advice even today…big up to Damian at Skint, Catskills, Joe at Lowlife, Mark B, Ninja Tune, Mr Scruff.
TS: Plus some press peeps – Neil Kulkarni & Ryan Proctor.
L: So where do you go from here? More labels?
RL: I think we are busy enough now with the two labels. We just want to continue pushing on with what we are doing and giving a platform for creative artists. I genuinely feel there are a lot more people who can enjoy the music we release and we just need to keep working hard to make sure that people know what we are about and get the opportunity to hear what we are doing.
TS: More labels!!! No way Pedro! The long term plan is to be putting out good music in 15 years time. I’ve always believed in building slowly and quietly and just getting on with it. Even if people aren’t checking for us yet, they will find us eventually.
L: How good was it to win Label of the Year at the Giles Peterson awards?
RL: Personally it meant a lot. I used to be a straight up hip hop fan and that was the only music I listened to, then a friend of mine got me listening to Giles Peterson, Patrick Forge and Norman Jay in the 80’s…rare groove time and I found out where all the hip hop samples came from and that really opened my mind to what music is about. Since then I have always checked Giles’s show to keep up to date with what is new, so it was great to be part of that.
L: Any other awards/achievements we should know about?
RL: Best Haircut Smash Hits 2002.
TS: Plus I’ve got a 20 meters bronze swimming badge on my Speedos.
L: How else are you expanding the labels?
RL: We are now just working closer with our distributors, licensors and our publishing in order to build things up.
L: What’s the best advice to someone struggling to break through?
RL: Musically stay true to what you believe in but make sure you understand the business side of things…Industry Rule Number Four Hundred and Eighty is sadly all too real!
TS: Just keep at it – not everyone’s going to like your music but that’s life. Get used to it and don’t stop (unless you’re rubbish – then you should stop real quick like). Also don’t just make a demo and send it off to a label and wait to get famous. I heard Westwood give this advice to someone a few years back. You gotta create that buzz around you – through working with local rappers/producers/djs in your local scene etc etc and then labels will come to you and you will be in a stronger position. Don’t rush the process cos you miss out learning loads important lessons.
“...I’ve got a 20 meters bronze swimming badge on my Speedos...”
L: Here’s an original question……..How do you decide on new talent?
RL: It’s hard to write down here as would need about 50 pages!!! We are looking for people who are creatively original and are also prepared to put in a lot of hard work at the beginning. Quantic is an example of an artist who was patient and waited for his time. He worked at a job away from music and did DJ gigs for no money at the start to promote his name and his hard work has now paid off but he didn’t expect anything for nothing.
TS: you just get a feeling from exciting artists. I reckon you are either a good or a bad rapper/producer. You can just tell straight away. Obviously there are different levels of skill within that – but I reckon you either got it or you ain’t. And if you got it then you’ve gotta work super hard to make that talent into something that can make you a living.
L: And another…..Is there a winning formula?
RL: If I knew it I’d be a very rich person. The reality is you need to work hard, have strong music but you need some good luck too.
TS: Ask Simon Cowell.
L: Who should we have to look out for, people you rate etc?
RL: Look out for: Immortal Technique, Zero DB, Spiritual South, and Lily Allen (I’ve only heard one song by her called LDN but it is amazingly funny and good). Rate: Skinnyman, Roots Manuva, Seiji, Afronaught, Daz I Cue, Omar (his new album is amazing and he should be selling more records than John Legend & Beyonce put together)…UK is running things!!!!!
 TS: Rup & Dirty Diggers, DJ Mentat, Dr Syntax, Hansel The Unicorn. Rate: Jehst, Ty, PLC, Braintax, DJ Embee & Looptroop (Swedish Hip Hop will have its day!), TM Juke, Dilla, that new Slum Village album is dope too, Marc Moulin, Galt MacDermot, too much good music…
L: What releases are you looking forward to this year?
RL: Spanky Wilson & The Quantic Soul Orchestra album…this is a heavy album. Beats that hip hop heads would die for, strings, big band horns and Spanky Wilson singing. I’m playing it of CDR in DJ sets at the moment and it is massive with loads of people asking me about it.
TS: Rup’s album ‘Rup On Zebra’ – this guy’s got skills; he’s on some wilderness kids tip but can also appeal to straight up heads. A proper lyricist. Dirty Diggers – new album ‘The Pleasure Is All Mine’. Better than the last one – the boys have been in studio for a long time on this one. Plus there’s a quality Phi-Life compilation featuring all their collaborations (Skitz, Taskforce, Vadim, Herbaliser etc) called ‘Playback’. Plenty of good ish to come.
L: Who do we need to look out for on you labels then?
RL: Tru Thoughts wise Lanu, The Bamboos, Nostalgia 77, Diesler, The Broken Keys, TM Juke and of course Alice Russell and Quantic. Zebra Traffic wise Rup (who I wanted to snap from Tom to be on Tru Thoughts) and Dirty Diggers.
- Mr
Lingo
- Photo credit: Sri Mckinnon
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