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Part 3
interview
0153 added 19.08.03 words Sumo Kaplunk
Now Cello - and I don't know quite how to phrase this so please bare with me - your tone and style is more linked to poetry and performance spoken-word stuff 'n that - so have you come up through the more orthodox route of ciphers and battles?
[Ben-One] This guy used to serve people on stage! This guy used to go to clubs, get mad drunk and then just get up and battle.
[Cello] Yehyeh! There was a time when I was really hungry as an emcee. Coming from Swindon which is quite isolated, I had proved myself to the community here and so just thought it was time to get out there. I was hungry enough to get onto a train, blag my way into a club and basically jump on stage -
[Chris] And that time you turned up at The Thekla that one time - it's almost legendary! The way you just served and slayed those emcees!
[Cello] The thing is now, I was involved in a battle locally a few weeks ago and in all fairness I'm not as hungry as I once was and I got a bit over the top - fair play to the young people coming up because they're more hungry than I am. As far as rhyming is concerned, if you're going to sit down and write something, you've got to delve deep. You've got to try and find more expressive words and things to say with those words. I feel that when I'm writing there's other forces working through me. You've just got to let that creative force work itself out through you.
[Ben-One] If you commit to making a record, that record's got to be a timeless work. It's like all these diss records - we already had them in the late '80s didn't we? Yeah it's cool but…
[Cello] It's like all the punchlines and similes, we're not too much into that - I mean, every now and then you can still find someone who comes out with a really clever thing to make you chuckle and say "yeah that was funny"
But it's just disposable?
[Cello] Yeah. It's disposable whereas poetry is timeless.
[Para] But you say about Cello's style being based around poetry but your opinion's based on only having heard the creative Control stuff. This guy is one of the dopest freestylers I've ever met - I've seen him bust so many styles - I've seen him freak over like Ska beats - he can rip any style and it is baaad man!
[Cello] The key is diversity I think. Through working with so many different people, I've never been closed off into one direction - I mean, I've worked with like folk bands and stuff. I've rapped over folk music…I've done the drum & bass thing… You've got to let your creativity express itself through all kinds of forms.
[Ben-One] Again, how deep does that rabbit hole go? I think Cello is the perfect emcee because he's not afraid to push things forward. But at the same time, if anybody does feel irate or has something to say then I don't think any of us would be afraid to battle them y'know? It's not something any of us want to make an issue over but if you really want to bring it than you better be prepared to get taken down
[Para] That goes out to any deejays as well!
[Cello] We're still strong enough in hip hop and we still love it that much that we will bring our skills to the battle; but battling for the love. For me, battling is a form of elevation because you're competing. There is that war element in all of us.…
[Ben-One] It hasn't been easy getting here so if anybody wants to come for it, we're perfectly willing to defend it.
[Para] But coming back to Cello's style, you've got to check his current three projects. He's got Creative Control which yeah, is poetry but then we've just done what is I suppose a solo album which is what I suppose you would call straight-up normal format hip hop…
[Cello] Just beats and rhymes - plus we've got work on there from a couple of young producers from the community - so it's that same philosophy of working with people that's up and coming.
Have you got a working title for that yet?
[Cello] Yeah, Minor mode of passion that's called.
and who are these producers?
[Cello] Forty Immortal they're called - a couple of local young guys. Para's sorta mastered it, done the cuts and scratches - and basically, we're going to do with that what we're doing with Para's mix CD; we're just going to put some money into it and get it to a few o' dem Rekkod stos' -
[Para] But it comes back to what we said in the first questions; one for all, all for Creative Control!
[Cello] It is still creative control because it is still part of us as an entity.
[Ben-One] Working together has been a long growing experience and I think it will just keep on growing. There's still a million and one places we can go with "Creative Control" and we all still find it exciting. There's plenty of work to be done still!
[Cello] I'm definitely more comfortable with singing now. When we did first approach that track is was really difficult. Me and Ben were like "pfffff, where are we headed with this?" but now? Because I've sung in a few bands before, I'm now "Well just let it happen, let it all out!"
[Chris] And I've got to say, it sounds fucking dope as well!
[Ben-One] It's scary man - going outside the box is scary!
[Cello] It's conditioning. There is a point where you're like "aaaargh! Can I cross that line?" Doubt creeps in and the domino effects turns doubt into a negative inhibition rather than a positive drive.
[Ben-One] that's right - it's like Stepchild said, it's the electric fence. If you want to climb it and get over then you can but you're gonna get shocked -
[Para] but once you are on the other side!
[Ben-One] Once you're on the other side, there's no turning back! That's the other thing I hate about England man! It is like being crabs in a barrel. Once you get any sort of success, UK hip hop will hate you for it - English hip hop will only like you if your face down in the shit for decades.
[Cello] That's a Western thing, - in the East, if someone works hard all their life to become good at what they do and they obtain good material things, people applaud that… But here, if matey-boy down the road gets a convertible BMW, or builds an extension on their home, it's like "Look at that fuckin wanka!" They'll put him down for it??
[Ben-One] Never mind the fact that that man's being working for what feels like 48 hours a day on a building site to earn those things -
[Cello] He wants those material things and he's worked hard to get them. We're not too into material things but that is just a really Western way of looking at things. It's that whole crab mentality - they'll just drag you back down again "yow aint gooin' nowheres bey."
[Ben-One] People would rather stop you from being successful than actually allow somebody from round the corner to make something of themselves. Another thing is, it is quite scary what people in England think "Success" is. Some people think that we're successful? I've had people come up to me and say stupid shit that they think I might be up to. They don't realise I'm fuckin broke same as everybody else in this group.
[Cello] I think our purpose is to touch people in a spiritual sense rather than to gain material gain for ourselves. I mean material benefits are nice and to get material gain would be lovely but that's probably not why we're all still doing this and why we're all involved in different projects - it's because we can't just stop doing this - There's been hundreds of times where I've been "this is it! I am not doing this anymore! I've got to get myself a proper job and a 9-to-5 lifestyle!" but then something inside me says "no!" There's something inside me, the drive is there in us to create - that's why I suppose we're called "Creative Control?" - WE'RE ALL BLOODY CONTROL FREAKS!!!
Does anybody currently have a goal in mind of where they want to be?
[Ben-One] On a whole basically, I just really wanna be able to work in a studio 24 hours a day without actually having to go out and work these shit jobs that pay my rent. I wanna be able to make a full-time living off of hip hop -
[Cello] I think that goes for all of us really. I think all of us just want some sort of humble successful living. To know that you've put the work in and there's something for you in return. I don't want the fame, don't want any of that; just want to live.
[Ben-One] Just want to push the artform forward and to live.
[Para] I don't want to sound smug but you saying about goals in hip hop, well, I think me personally I've done what I wanted because I've got a house of my own now and I paid for it through deejaying. That's all I want and now all I need to do is to get the money so I can live comfortably - and that's all I've ever wanted to do.
[Cello] If success does come and an opportunity does come with, as you say, perhaps Ben writing some music for shows or movies or advertisements, well then I say grab that opportunity because if it's there, you owe it to yourself to take it. It's like with me, if something came up with a band for instance and there was a chance of some kind of commercial success or whatever, I would GO FOR IT because you'll be touching so many more people. But as far as all that paparazzi and that goes, nah sod that.
[Ben-One] It depends how far you're prepared to compromise yourself. There is things that I just wouldn't do for money. I've had punk bands come up to me and say "we need a producer, will you produce our records?" I don't know the first thing about punk music, so why do you want me to produce it? That would be like exploiting punk just so I can make money. You've got to be able to know when people genuinely want you to do stuff because it's artistically good and when people want you to do something because they want to latch onto the little bit of fame you've got. So yeah, as long as you don't sell yourself short, and you don't do something that you're not actually going to be able to live with yourself, then it's all good. But like I say, none of us have any guaranteed money on the table. We need to work.
[Cello] I'm still signing-on…Keeping it real! Keeping it real broke! But as we say, we do the old teaching bits and bobs -
[Ben-One] Teaching's great - teaching is a perfect forum for me! But Like I say, I just want to be able to push the music forward. I don't know where it's going to go because I have no preconceptions when I turn on the sampler or the turntables of where I'm headed with it, I just know I'm going to follow it to its logical conclusion. So whatever happens, happens and we'll still be doing this -
Do you have like a wish-list of collaborations?
[Ben-One] Charles Stepney but I don't know if he's still alive? Norman Whitfield as well but again, I don't know if he's alive? Charles Stepney is the guy from Mo-Town basically, worked with people like Mini Riperton -
[Para] I got loads man! If we're talking about emcees -
[Ben-One] I want to do Josh Martinez!!! I've been phoning him but I don't seem to catch him -
[Cello] I'd like to work with Elusive -
[Para] Eyedea! The emcee Eyedea is just completely crazy -
[Ben-One] Nobody's good as well -
[Para] Slug of Atmosphere -
[Cello] Mumbles! Yeah Get Mumbles back in the studio with Aceyalone! Aceyalone's an incredible rhymer but on record he's nothing without Mumbles!
[Para] Any of The Living Legends! Eligh especially. - getting Grouch, Eligh and then The Shape Shifters too - like Circus, - and as far as English emcees? I'd love to do a tune with Life -
[Ben-One] Yeah Life from Phi Life Cypher!
[Para] Jehst… He'd be a good emcee to do stuff with…
[Cello] And you know I never used to like Taskforce but now I'm really getting into them - maybe if I'd first heard them back at the time when I was a young hungry battle emcee then I would have automatically loved them but…..
[Ben-One] But now they're really-really growing…. I really like Klashnekoff, Lewis Parker…
[Cello] I like his production as well -
[Ben-One] But that's it man, Lewis gets it - he gets it down; what we're on about with the vocal and the beat working together as one - Lewis Parker definitely gets it down and that first album Masquerades and silhouettes is an undeniable classic.
[Cello] See I'm good friends with Awkward and Stepchild but I've never done anything with them.
[Ben-One] I've just got to say, for the benefit of the record, Stepchild is the most amazing vocalist in the country.
[Cello exits because he's late for a prior engagement]
OK, what was that break from this Para from mix about twenty seconds ago? I know it was used on BDP's Edutainment album and it goes somemat like "RUHHHH! Pittapattapittapatta - RUHHHH! Pittapattapittapatta"
[Ben-One] That's asembly line off the Machine gun LP by the Commodores isn't it?
[Para] Not sure if that's the one you're talking about but basically this CD of mine is just full of breaks and look, Imma write my number here on the back because I'm not one of those people who keeps their breaks hidden so I gladly let you know any one you want to know.
[Ben-One] One thing I've got to say that really annoys me is when people buy breaks and then just keep it seriously shhhhhneaky -
[Para] Nah man, there could be a big argument here - I understand both arguments about this! Heheheheh.
[Ben-One] I've got to say, most of them people that keep it mad sneaky don't even produce. They just horde precious breaks!?
[Para] Yeah producers have got every right not to disclose their sources but people like me who just use them to make mixtapes and who just love the actual music, I'll tell anyone - and that annoys certain people…
So you've got no problem with these Sampleology type websites that list all the breaks from like Wu Tang records 'n that?
[Ben-One] Hey! If you can find them, tell me about it! Thing is, I know full well that I don't use anything that's too blatant - and it's all context and how you use them isn't it?
[Para] Nah I 've got no problem with them. At the end of the day, if you want that break that somebody's listed on a website, you've got to first sit down log-on, you've got to find the listing, write it down, you've then got to go to the shop, you've got to dig, you've got to find it, you've got to pay for it, you've got to get that record home in one piece at the risk of finding out that there's a scratch on that specific point of the record that you want to sample - so you've still got to do all the hard work even if somebody's listed the name of a record haven't you?
[Ben-One] But the thing is, I think a lot of those people who are secretive about it are just obsessive record collectors who I think buy stuff no matter whether they like the record or not. I wont buy a record if I don't actually like it. If I like it, I don't give a fuck what people might say, I paid my money so I've got a right to talk about it.
[Para] The big thing now with these breaks - it started out with like old Jazz, old soul and old funk records and then it moved onto like hard rock, like seventies rock, there's so many breaks within that - but then when I went over to America two years ago, everyone was digging in the country & Western section for breaks!? So there's unlimited amounts of breaks out there and it's about what you do with them. There's breaks in anything, you can use anything whether it's a sample or an actual drum loop -
[Ben-One] At the end of the day, it's all about whether you can make it funky or not. If you can make it funky and interesting to listen to, then go ahead and do it!
[Para] Yeah! Who was it that used Mario - y'know the Super Mario music?
Benefit - and TTC did it too I believe -
[Para] What, Super Mario? So now is that a break? I suppose it is considered a break now but all you've got to do to find that is buy the game -
And Tonedef and his Extended Famm crew did a song based around Tetris -
[Para] Well there you go.
[Ben-One] Have you heard of Yosumi out of New York?
yehyehyeh, Domingo?
[Ben-One] That's the guy! Now see they're doing that - they're totally ripping off like Tomb Raider and everything… Whatever you want man! At the end of the day, if you can go outside with a dictaphone, record cars going past and make that sound good, you go do it!
[Para] You try putting that on a website huh!!? You've got to right down the right model, engine size and tyre condition of those specific three cars what just went past - you've got to note the right colour, name the right driver, note how much pressure they're putting on the gas peddle -
And hey! You've got to apply to those three drivers for sample clearance too!
[Para] heheh, How you going to do that!? You'd have to contact the police to do a licence check or something heheheh.
OK, better draw it to a close bout now…Any final biggups, words of wisdom or anything?
[Ben-One] just keep on keeping on and keep your heart in whatever you do.
[Para] Make sure that if you can teach it, pass it on - but teach; don't preach it.
[Ben-One] If you can teach then teach but don't preach. Thanks to ukhh.com for the opportunity and thanks to you for coming down.
[Chris] And as you say yourself, "Peace & progress"
[Ben-One & Para] Biggup to Creatures in America, Destined and Tension. State of the Union, Mike Mechanic, Numskullz, YNR, No more Horses, all the free party and reggae sound systems, all the pirate radio stations and peace to you!
The album, 'Left Country' is still out now and Para's 'Form of Awareness' mixtape is also available. check the website out below
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Sumo Kaplunk
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© 2003, CD Goldie for ukhh.com