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  Deprogrammed Interview
interview 0198 added
30.05.04 words: SuMoKaPlUnK
technical: Flat4 / QED
They must hold the record for most self-promotional message board threads per hour but they’re also great guys with a potentially great future ahead of them. Maybe you know them from their contributions to the ukhh forums? Maybe you’ve seen them supporting some of the UK’s biggest acts live? Maybe you’ve read the coverage they’ve received in Blues & Soul and other magazines? Well whatever the case, chances are you’ve heard something of or about Blood & Jones and their Deprogrammed crew. It took a while but I finally caught up with the surprise show-stealers of the first and third YML gigs to talk about the collective and their takes on: message rap, non-sample-based production, good reading and the YML shows.
first things first, please introduce yourselves - like what do you all
do?
Blood: I'm Alex Blood; probably better known as Blood from Blood & Jonez. I’m basically the crew’s producer/engineer, as well as being one of the main MC's
Jonez: Easy Sumo man. I’m Simon Jones, a 22 year old student currently working towards a Sociology degree in Leeds. Better known by this crazy Hip Hop community of ours as Jonez from Blood & Jonez. Self-righteous preacher of truth on the mic, alcoholic by night.
Jalporte: I'm Jalporte the Indian MC of the crew, and my job here is to tell it like it is, and hope you find some sort of meaning in what I say.
Fierce: Michael Frearson; I study English at Notts Trent by day and save crippled puppies by night.
How did you feel the YML show/s went?
Jonez: Well man, we all had a fantastic time. Sometimes it’s hard to let go and really get involved in the vibe when we all know that we’re expected to perform. But yeah, the venue was suitably intimate, the bar man was friendly, the drinks flowed freely and everyone was smiling which is always nice to see. The first night was a lot of fun due to the freestyle antics of Rich Keight from 21 Eyez and our man Perry Jigga. Despite the often antagonistic nature of Hip Hop it was definitely all love. Multiverse 3 did a wicked set, Noz and the Pedigree Chumps delivered an entertaining set and the vibes being spun throughout the night had Jalporte waving his arms about like a loon, so it was definitely all good.
The second night was just as good man. I think we delivered a tighter set that night and it was good to perform along side our friends the Gnostix who knocked out some rowdy shit. I was pretty pissed up by the time Hoodz Underground came on, but I walked away from their show pleasantly surprised. I’d seen them a year or two back in Leeds and can guarantee that those boys have stepped their game up hard! They involved the crowd and other MC’s really well, which is definitely important. So yeah man, you and Pete have got a good thing going on. I wish you all the best with future shows.
Jalporte: Pretty good, good crowd and we got a good response. Shout to Pete and Sumo for putting on some quality shows. Really vibed hard on DJ Riles’ DJ sets
Let's go way back...back into time...How did y'all hook up and how did Deprogrammed come into being? Was anybody involved in the music before coming together?
Blood: Well I’ve been MCing for about ten years now, and at the age of about 15/16 I started to get sick of using other peoples beats and loops, and started bashing out my own beats on cheap ass software. So for around five years I’d been knocking out my own bedroom tunes, and working with different local crews. Me and Jonez met when we were 17 at college, and after becoming good friends, slowly started dabbling in writing together, hence the birth of Blood & Jonez. It was through Jonez that I met Fierce who was already deep into poetry and literature. Jalporte was a known chap around our college and he was into Jeru, so we kinda linked up that way. Deprogrammed came about just before we dropped the Blood & Jonez, "Spare A Little Change....EP" cause I basically wanted to start my own label for us to put our work out on. And the rest is history really, whilst touring and pushing the Blood & Jonez shit, we were all in the studio working together and nurturing what is now a strong collective of like minded talented peeps.
... Whatever criticisms may come our way this whole shit has been born out of friendship and a collective desire to get shit off our chest. You can’t fuck with that ...
Jonez: Yeah man, before I met Blood I could never have imagine myself writing lyrics or busting rhymes. I was into Hip Hop but never really had the confidence to take my thoughts to the people. I’d always been interested in certain social issues due to certain shit I’d been exposed to whilst growing up, family members being discriminated against on the grounds of their race, going to a secondary school in the suburbs that was inhabited by narrow minded, racist and ignorant fucks, shit like that had an impact on me as a youth. So meeting Blood who’d been busting his thoughts into the mic for years was a big inspiration, some tough times came and went, I started penning some wack rhymes and Blood & Jonez was born. So folk shouldn’t underestimate the realness of this collective. Whatever criticisms may come our way this whole shit has been born out of friendship and a collective desire to get shit off our chest. You can’t fuck with that.
Does deprogrammed have a manifesto and will you only work with people
who subscribe to this manifesto or at least who agree with your outlook?
Fierce: We all have individual views and goals as regards our creativity; we share a common disillusionment with what’s going on in the mainstream. For each one of us it stems from very personal anxieties and very real trials that we’ve been through, trying to make sense of life and fit into this world.
Blood: Deprogrammed is in no way a manifesto, when we say “Deprogrammed,” we mean people that are aware of what’s goin' on in the world around them, and people who don’t need to live by the guidelines set out for us. That’s all. So we'd work with anyone who respected what we do and vice versa.
Jonez: Yeah man, growing up we all become socialised to accept the norms of our world without question, which is pretty fucked up. The amount of times kids ask “Why?” and their parents scold them with some “Because I said so!” type of shit. A lot of things don’t make sense and therefore shouldn’t be accepted. I see it as a responsibility to question any system that’s forced upon me, its rules and the people that make them. For me personally, that’s being Deprogrammed.
Jalporte: No manifesto, I just want to work with people who have something to say. Not pointless shite and nonsense.
is Deprogrammed now a finite entity or are you forever on the lookout
for new members? If so, what are you looking for?
Blood: I wouldn’t say were a finite entity, but I wouldn’t say we’re on the look out for more members. The members we have, are on board for the right reasons. They’re people myself or others have crossed paths with in life, and who feel that Deprogrammed can take them to where they wanna be. We’re a very close group of people, that’s why our material and shows come out like they do. At present were not really a label looking to sign up new MCs, we wanna work with other MCs but Depro is more of a family than a business looking to expand. As far as what we’re looking for, that kinda comes back to who we'd work with, and like we said, anyone that respects our vibe and we respect theirs.
Fierce: Yeah, I’d really like to work with singers.
Jonez: Word to Bleeze, I reckon its gonna take some time before we’re in a position to fulfil obligations to any new cats that are looking to release stuff through Deprogrammed. We don’t really have the financial power to be doing that just yet. But in terms of working with like minded heads I think its fair to say that we’re definitely open to suggestions and I see it as building with those that deserve the time and effort. That’s what Friends of the family is all about. Us linking up with like minded , creative people who really deserve to get their vibe heard.
Jalporte: I’m printing off application forms now. Attach your CV also!
... I’d rather support a less talented artist if I feel that they have a stronger and more relevant message ...
I just bought Paris's latest album Sonic Jihad this morning and was
saddened to find that the intentionally offensive artwork had been hidden
inside a card sleeve - so you had to know in advance about it to want to
buy the CD, take off the card sleeve and then be shocked by the
"controversial" artwork - and I say "saddened" because this supports my
belief that most politically conscious or message-driven rap is preaching to
the converted - would you agree?
Jonez: Well mate, It depends on the approach taken by the act in question. If you’re going to pigeon-hole yourself as a “politically conscious” group then it makes sense that you’ll attract a “politically conscious” audience and in this sense you’re preaching to a potentially converted (depending on your political stance) niche market. This is why Deprogrammed focuses on much more than just politics. We all have our own flex as individual MC’s and when that comes together we’re confident that we’ll be able to attract a broad spectrum of heads that shall all take different things from it. Whether its relating to our personal experiences, our thoughts on life, society, politics, fucking up fake MC’s, whatever! There’s something for all heads.
Jalporte: In any style of music you will be preaching to those who are converted and those who are not. There is always a conflict, some like you, some don’t. But if you heard the music, that’s what counts.
Blood: I do think a lot of people who buy the message driven rap are already "converted", I think the key is not to revolve your whole style around politics or the message, cause for people to truly respect what you’re saying they have to see the real you, you have to show them the human side of yourself for them to relate to. Then when you do start talking facts they’re more likely to listen.
Fierce: The best we can do is lay our message down and try to push it as widely as possible, and let people pick it up if they like what they hear. There will be plenty of people ready to drag us down for what we’re trying to do but at the end of the day if I didn’t think this was worthwhile I wouldn’t be doing it.
Coming back to the deprogrammed manifesto question and the recent event of Black Eyed Peas being at number 1 in the UK singles chart with their vaguely positive but artistically retarded song, which would you say is more important to you as a fan and/or an artist: the message being delivered or the artistry involved in conveying that message?
Fierce: There are people who are extremely effective at what they do yet they could still be using it for a negative purpose – look at Hitler. There are many people out there who make music and are exceptionally good and successful at what they do, but I’d rather support a less talented artist if I feel that they have a stronger and more relevant message. The final word comes down to the fact that we’re in a media industry – we’re out there saying things, and I feel that there are enough people out there talking shit or blatantly putting across a message that isn’t beneficial for people to take on board.
Blood: For me personally, its the artistry involved, anyone can get on a mic and drop some raw facts about society and the world around us. Its how you convey it to the listener, if a message is delivered in an artistic and interesting way, I find that more inspiring than say some raw Chuck D shit. But that’s just me.
Jalporte: As an artist and a fan, for me its the message. Jeru and Gangstarr are examples of that. I want people and myself to be able to take something away from the track, other then just flow or creative wordplay.
Jonez: Yeah man, that BEP song was wack as fuck but my position on it has always been one of approval. Not in the artistic sense but in the context of mainstream music. I’d much prefer the masses to be buying into the propagation of love, peace, equality and political awareness rather than buying into some suckers pimping their possessions, lack of morality, disregard for women etc. That shit’s getting rotated in the mainstream an unhealthy amount of times and kids are listening in. But then again that’s looking at it from a point of view that’s checking the message and the impact that message is having on those exposed to it, so from an artistic point of view you’re right Sumo, its no excuse for making shit music. On the flip side its just like citizens of the United States electing Bill Clinton based on his ability to bust the saxophone? Its all well and good he can get fresh with the brass but what are his domestic and foreign policies saying?
... I find using samples the most limiting and lifeless form of production ...
And what does message rap actually achieve/accomplish? Have you ever
been influenced by music and literature in any way?
Blood: One thing I wanna set straight is that Deprogrammed don’t do "message rap", we don’t wanna get pigeon holed into that category cause that’s just one element of our sound, we got some raw emotional shit, some straight up battle shit, some politic shit. We just use music as a form of expression. We "soulful" rap if anything. Inspiration wise, I get heavily influenced by artists I respect, Tupac Shakur has been the most influential for me on a lyrical stance, and musically UB40 , Bob Marley, even Dre.
Jalporte: Of course, Jeru mainly and a lot of rock'n'roll. Music is a substance that you can emotionally mould.
Fierce: I think the vast majority of rap has a message, whether its useful or not, but I guess one of the main factors is expression. That’s what we try to focus on in order to be able to put ourselves into a record, concentrating on expressing who we are and how we feel, and let people take from that what they will. We’ve all been heavily influenced by both literature and music; unfortunately I’d need a lot more time and space to explain that more specifically.
Jonez: I certainly have mate and I’m confident that everyone reading this has. We’re all products of our surroundings to an extent, and the thoughts and ideas that we’re exposed to within those surroundings shape our perception of reality and what’s possible within that reality. I remember the first time I heard Moment of truth by Gangstarr, that shit helped me a lot man, really lifted me out of a dark place, gave me a little optimism as well as the conviction that music can help reach folk. Same applies to Tupac, Rage Against the Machine, Bob Marley, Public Enemy, Bob Dylan, the list goes on. On a literature tip, I’ve read a lot of shit written by revolutionaries, political thinkers, people that helped change the course of history and I find the dedication, commitment, passion and self-belief that these individuals had to reach out and make shit happen overwhelming. If you can reason with folk, talk in a language they understand and present your truth in a way that people can relate to then big yourself up and keep reaching.
Your website explains how you've rejected hiphop's traditionally sample/break-based production aesthetic in favour of real musicians making original music right? Don't you find that limiting?
Blood: No way, on the contrary, I find using samples the most limiting and lifeless form of production. Some people might think I’m been blasphemous to hip hop culture, but I wanna see some real musicians in our scene, making real original music. From my early days making beats, I was always itching to throw my own melodies I had in my head down over a beat, but never had the platform to do it, so I was forced to use samples. But over the last few years, I just moved into creating music from scratch, no samples, no loops, just my music, which happens to be hip hop inspired cause that’s my background. So it really makes me mad when I see all these peeps stepping about calling themselves “producers,” with a Stevie Wonder loop under a heavy drum break, that shit takes ten minutes man. I wanna see some Phil Collins type figures in this game man, some proper artists on the beat side of shit.
Is there an actual Blood & Jones backing band sorted or is it more of
a revolving membership?
Blood: Not as such, we recently acquired, a bongo playing, freestyling, drum and bass digging saxophonist, called Perry "Jigga" Jackson. Some people might of seen him in the later half of our recent tour rocking some heavy vibes on his sax. But that’s about it as far as a band go. We are definitely interested in incorporating more live instruments into our music, in the studio and on stage. But for now our Swiss army knife Perry offers more than enough to make our show the hottest shit in town. I suppose it is a sort of revolving membership, I’m sure we'll work with many different musicians in our future shows, but Perry is firm Depro member man, a loveable elusive rogue.
Jonez: Yeah Big up Perry Jackson, the astral travelling mad man. On the real though man, we’ve also acquired a fresh, fresh Turntablist named Angelo who’s won a number of DJ titles over the years. He’s accompanying us now that we’ve started our new set of live shows. Safe geezer, definitely a part of the Deprogrammed crew. Must shout out to Ben Shepherd as well man, a friend who was busting some nice acoustic guitar vibes for a show we did but despite being less elusive then Perry Jackson he was clearly more disposable, don’t think his heart was in it but big him up anyway.
Jalporte: Shout to Perry, talented man.
What would be your ideal setup as a band?
Fierce: One day I’d love to work with a full orchestra but I would also love to do unplugged stuff with someone on acoustic guitar and someone singing. And me on maracas.
Blood: Us boys, with UB40 as our backing band, that would be the shit man. I can see it too.
Jalporte: Deprogrammed with Oasis or Linkin Park.
Jonez: Well man, I’m saying this. Kool of Kool and the gang fame on the bass, Phil Collins on the Drums and vocals, Jon out of the Levellers on the fiddle, some fresh guitar steez from Eric Clapton, with Bez out of the Happy Mondays (and Fierce) on the maracas. That would be dope as fuck. Don’t forget our man Michael Jackson busting his beat box. Heavy!
... I wanna see some Phil Collins type figures in this game man ...
What are y'all reading at the moment? (big jugs weekly and ukhh.com
don't count BTW)
Blood: I’m reading Michael Jackson, the Magic and the Madness. Heavy book, big up Jacko, a victim of modern times if I ever did see one.
Jalporte: Car Engine technology and Human muscles. All relevant material to what I’m doing, I’m using the 'muscles' book to revise from for Uni’. The 'car' book is so I can build a Saph cossie.
Fierce: Paradise Lost, Poems by T.S. Eliot, the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam.
Jonez: At the moment I’m rocking Aldous Huxleys Brave New World, Naomi Klein’s Fences and Windows a heavy book on the human nature/nurture debate called Blank Slate by Steven Pinker and www.schnews.co.uk, check that shit out. If you’re not pissed off your not paying attention.
What's this new compilation you've got out?
Jonez: Friends of the family my man, a little brainwave I had last summer time. I’d been thinking about how good it would be to try and get some of the more underground, unsigned MC’s in the country that we think represent the Deprogrammed vibe the most, onto one compilation with all beats produced by Blood. I just thought there was a lot of synergy in the idea, it could benefit everyone greatly and get us all closer to where we want to be by working together rather than working apart. Over the last few years I’ve managed to acquire a few contacts, a fat database of email addresses, we’d crossed paths with different MC’s that we knew were on the right vibe or whatever so the process of advertising for heads who were interested began. We received about 25 demo’s in total, checked them out, checked out a few soundclick pages and agreed on a final line up. Then I had to step back up to Leeds and get my head down at uni, so the entire project was left in Bloods capable hands.
Blood: So basically after our jones got all the MCs hooked up and we’d all agreed on who was gonna be on the album, we went about stepping up and down the country and recording the acts, some came to derby, others sent their shit in, we even got our boy Egocentrik, from Germany to do a tune. That whole process took a lot of time and cash out of us, but then it was just down to me locking myself in the studio for about 3 months solid to mix and master the whole thing. But now its done and we got a fresh compilation of up and coming hip hop talent. I tried to make all the production as varied as possible, it’s definitely not my usual style but each of the acts was a different sound. It was a great experience for me as a producer to work with so many talented acts. I’d never produced and mixed an entire album before so it gave me an insight into things to come, and prepared me for the work I’ll have to do for the Deprogrammed album later on in the year. So it’s a 14 track UK hip hop compilation LP, and that shit is out now on our Deprogrammed Productions, available from www.deprogrammed.co.uk, . Pay no more than 6 quid people, we ain't ripping no one off, good fresh hip hop at a good fresh price.
Jalporte: It’s phat mate so go and buy it
Jonez: Yeah man, keep your eyes peeled for Doyen-D, Madrox, Skeptic, Stylah, Grand Iris, The Gnow, AMMO and Egocentrik. I’m about to start another project on a similar tip and I’m sure that Friends of the family volume 2 is just a matter of time.
And to wrap it all up, any famous last words or anybody you want to biggup on this worldwide basis?
Fierce: My mother and father – I’ll never be able to pay them back for everything they put into raising me, the Depro crew – thank you boys, all the people on the Friends of the Family album, Naked’s crew, RKelly AKA Pipemaster K, Davey Crock and Jimmy Crick, the Beastmater, Audrey Lowery, the Malt Shovel in Spondon, of course yourself Sumo – thanks for this opportunity to get our opinions out there, Turner’s crew, and finally KATIE.
Jalporte: anyone who has in small or large ways helped us out, those who
bought the CD's. My guiding heroes: Noel and Liam Gallagher, Gandhi, Muhammad
Ali, Stone Cold Steve Austin, and David Blaine. To anyone who can see it;
Please STAY OUT OF THE MATRIX, and those who can't GO LOOK FOR IT
Jonez: Big up my Depro crew, all the promoters and industry types that have given us a platform to expose our thoughts and do our thing, that includes you Sumo, thanks for this man. Massive shout out to all the MC’s, Breakers, Producers, Graf artists and anyone else who’s a part of this vibrant sub-culture of ours, keep doing your thing, without us it falls apart. Big up my Leeds crew, I ain’t talking the fake socialite fucks that say shit to be down. I’m talking about the real friends who know who they are. Big up my Derby roots and those that stay true. Final shout out has to go to all political activists, deep thinkers, movers, shakers and anyone with a clenched fist ready to take on the ills of this fucked up world order. To the apathetic majority of cynics out there, well, time’s running out. R.I.P Carlo Guilliani, a brave young man who found out the hard way.
Blood: RIP Tupac Shakur & Paul McCartney
Many-many thanks to Simon, Michael, Alex and Jalport for doing the interview. Many extra special thanks for donating all the cash you raised from sales of your EP the night of Wine & Grind to www.the-coffee-project.com. Extra-extra big thanks for helping restore my faith in “UK hiphop” in light of all the hollow rhetoric and BS gestures YML had suffered. The guys have a decent body of work out there on CD so get over to www.deprogrammed.co.uk to find out more about Blood & Jones, the Deprogrammed collective and their releases.
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